27 Comments → “Astrology is a Scam”

1. 
   

   Ty Brody
   

   8 months ago

   my girlfriend believes in this stuff. so annoying!

   [Reply]
2. 
   

   Jay
   

   8 months ago

   Sorry,
   I disagree. And I’ve lost patience with so called expert debunkers who haven’t studied it or talked to REAL astrologers at length and in a meaningful way.

   Kind of reminds me of MDs debunking acupuncture. Study it at least four years, then come back and we’ll talk.

   We are not just one astrology sign. What you see in the newspapers is only Sun sign astrology. That’s entertainment. That’s what your test was about. Sun signs. That’s not what real astrologers do. The Sun sign only gives you 1/10 of all the planets. And that doesn’t even get into aspects, signs, etc.

   There are innumerable combinations. Are you an Aries with a moon – your emotional nature – in Aries – or is it in Taurus or Gemini or Cancer or Leo etc., which completely modifies it, and do you have an ascendant in Aries or Taurus Gemini, etc. and what about your Mercury – your communication style, or your Venus – the things you love and enjoy and Mars – your physical energy, and Jupiter and Saturn and Uranus and Neptune and Pluto. And how do those planets mathematically aspect and match up with the others. And those combinations occur for each of the other 12 astrological signs.

   There are many real astrologers who have had years and years and years of study. It is also offered as courses of study in universities.
   This is no parlor game. Do the research. PLEASE. I mean REAL research.

   Read some articles. Have you read anything by Stephen Forrest, or Robert Hand, or Robert Blaschke. Have you studied any of their books? How many of their courses have you taken. And how about the work of well-respected financial astrologer: Raymond Merriman.

   There are psychologists and therapists using astrology as an adjunct in their professions.

   Have you read anything by Liz Greene? She is one of the most respected astrologers in the world. She holds a doctorate in psychology and is a qualified Jungian analyst. She also holds a diploma in counselling from the Centre for Transpersonal Psychology in London, and a diploma from the Faculty of Astrological Studies, of which she is a lifetime Patron.

   Go read one of her psychological profiles for celebrities here:
   http://www.astro.com/samples/samples_e.htm

   You could find some substantive articles at http://www.mountainastrologer.com

   There are many who have thought astrology was hogwash and then have gone on to STUDY it and have become astrologers. Case in point: Marjorie Orr, who was a BBC TV documentary producer with a philosophy degree and a scientific bent. Here: http://star4cast.com/index.asp?page=about.asp and here’s what she does: http://star4cast.com/index2f.asp?page=forum_article.asp?id=1
   I don’t agree with s lot of what she does, but she has some interesting info.

   Go read about Pluto in Capricorn – where it just went a few months ago and where it will be for many years. Pluto is about breaking down what is no longer effective and useful, it’s about transformation, and Capricorn is about institutions like government, banking, insurance, finances. Sound like anything we’re going through?

   Or go read about Pluto in Sagittarius, the sign it just left and where it had been for the last 14 years. It was a time of excess, religious fanaticism, over extension, wanting more, more, more.

   How about noticing Saturn vs Uranus – old vs. new – a push pull aspect in effect now and exact ON THE DAY Obama was elected president.

   Saturn is about responsibility, structure, it’s is about the status quo, conversative, the old, traditional, fear, resistance to change, obstructionism.
   Uranus – is about change, the new, breakthroughs, innovation, forward thinking, thinking outside the box.

   John McCain – represented Saturn
   Obama – represented Uranus

   And these planets are confronting one another now for the next year. Have you noticed the resistance to change being played out on the political stage.

   The purpose of astrology is to help us to understand these cycles and how they are impacting our lives and then to work with the energies for the best outcome.

   I’m only a student of astrology, been one for years – it takes lots of study to be a REAL astrologer, but I see how the cycles are played out in our lives. It’s all energy – patterns and cycles. Shorter cycles and longer cycles. The idea is not that the cycles and planets control us, but we are responsible for how we interact with them – either in a negative way or positive.

   Ex: a person had a transit of Saturn to his Mars.

   Saturn is responsibility, discipline, authority, among other things.
   Mars is physical activity, action. Can be impulsive,
   So this person ran a red light and got a ticket.(from Saturn, the policeman – authority figure.)

   Now if that person had known about his/her chart, he/she instead could have chosen to use that Saturn Mars transit in a more positive way and used Saturn as discipline to act on the Mars to go to a gym and develop a workout routine.

   And that’s just a minute example.

   That’s how you apply astrology! It doesn’t control you. We make the choices to improve our lives. Astrology is like having a map while you’re taking a trip. You’re doing the driving but it’s helpful to have the map.

   What I’ve found for myself personally, is that astrology helps me to look at things more objectively. If I’m going through particular challenging cycles, instead of getting myself all caught up in the drama emotionally, it gives me the opportunity to take a breath, step back and perceive situations differently. And I don’t mean checking the aspects every minute of every day. That’s obsessive and not very useful. This understanding of patterns and cycles opens me to possibilities. And since I know it’s only a cycle, sometimes just knowing “this too will pass” is very comforting. I find it very empowering.

   [Reply]

   Mr. Monkey Reply:
   December 15th, 2009 at 8:54 PM

   Ok, I’ll go through that information, but it’ll take a while before I respond to it because you’ve recommended a lot of material.

   That said, this so-called “real astrology” that you claim to be a student of is still flawed in the sense that it tries to link psychology and philosophy with balls of gas light years away or planets so far away that their influence is so minute it’s negligible.

   You astrologers should just go ahead and become psychologists. You’re halfway there anyway, except you insist on celestial influence. Get rid of the pseudo-science and I would have no problem with you.

   My beef isn’t with people using whatever method they do to help get through life, it’s with astrologers deliberate use of non-verifiable methods to scam people out of their hard earned cash. Not only that, but astrology throws reason out the window in favor of powerful emotional experiences that trick peoples’ minds into accepting irrationality.

   [Reply]
3. 
   

   Mark C.
   

   8 months ago

   Astrology is just seeing what you want to see. Taking open and suggestive phrases and matching it to whatever it applies to in your life.

   @Jay, are you serious? At first I wanted to call you an idiot but now I just feel sorry for you.

   This astrology nonsense originated in a geocentric time when people thought the universe revolved around us.

   [Reply]
4. 
   

   marc
   

   8 months ago

   I am not an astrologer but I have great respect for astrologers. It is one of the oldest sciences and many people who lived on the planet earth (Not in today’s cities) used to feel the power of the moon and sun and other planets. Nowadays people just accept that intelligence is a high form of consciousness, sorry your real smarts emanate from the balance of your heart and mind, not your self serving IQ. Anyway I enjoyed reading your site very much-you are doing what you think is right with a great passion, God loves that.

   [Reply]
5. 
   

   Carmencita
   

   8 months ago

   Very well said Jay. You make your points clearly, but I fear that sadly you’re wasting your time and effort on people who think the words “confirmation bias” only apply to others…

   I spend all my time at the moment arguing precisely the same points on the Guardian website talkboard. You should come over! It’s certainly a challenge for my Gemini AC and Mars and Scorpio moon! :)

   http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX/.776116b0/2082?14@937.McC4iomJjht@

   [Reply]

   Mr. Monkey Reply:
   December 16th, 2009 at 11:55 AM

   Confirmation bias? So you’re saying I cherry pick evidence? Where is this mountain of evidence proving astrology that I left out because of my “confirmation bias?” Please show me. Show me the undeniable scientific evidence that I’ve left out.

   [Reply]

   Carmencita Reply:
   December 16th, 2009 at 5:49 PM

   Mr Monkey – If you want to have that argument you’ll have to come over to the Guardian. I haven’t got time to have it twice. I’m sure you’ll make plenty of friends there!

   [Reply]

   Mr. Monkey Reply:
   December 16th, 2009 at 9:16 PM

   I’ll check it out, but I’m not interested in arguing. I’m interested in evidence. If you have any, let me know. Post a link or something. Have a nice day :)

   [Reply]

   Carmencita Reply:
   December 16th, 2009 at 10:26 PM

   The point about your “test” is that a full natal chart properly prepared by a good astrologer ain’t that vague. Nor even are Sun sign descriptions, however incomplete an insight they provide into a human personality. They just aren’t alike. Try reading them. Real ones, not this fake one designed to confirm your own preconceived beliefs about astrology.

   As neither side actually has the killer evidence which can reliably prove or disprove astrology all anyone can do is argue their POV. Including you.

   You have a nice day too! :)

   [Reply]

   Mr. Monkey Reply:
   December 16th, 2009 at 11:04 PM

   Thanks! I will, although it’s actually night time now lol.

   Anyway, so what you’re saying is that your evidence for astrology…is astrology? I’m confused, how is that evidence?

   That’s not how science works. Why don’t these “good astrologers” ever pass a double blind test? Why do scientific studies done on astrology show results that are essentially equal to pure guesswork?

   I’m interested in real evidence.

   And I would disagree with your statement that neither side has “killer evidence.” Your side has none that is verifiable. Science has evidence as seen in study I linked to, among others, disproving astrology.

   Science doesn’t work like the justice system. It’s not “innocent until proven guilty,” it’s “prove it, or we don’t believe you.”

   That said, I’m willing to look at any real evidence you can provide.

   [Reply]

   Jules Reply:
   December 21st, 2009 at 7:38 AM

   Hey Mr. Monkey,

   If you like to study this subject I do have some good links for you.
   These are websites where you can study and discuss this subject for free (yay).

   If you don’t, don’t worry, you don’t have to read it.

   Note: take your birth time for best accuracy.

   http://www.adze.com/SuperPower/index.htm
   this is a link to a website where you can read a computer generated description on different aspects of your “horoscope”.
   Since it is computer generated it is sort of rough material, but i am really curious what you think about it.

   You can also try astro.com. and click on [free horoscopes].
   Then choose short personal portrait (gives description of several aspects) and click portrait to read about the aspects/planets/houses separately)

   then: sasstroly.com and cafeastrology.com

   [Reply]

   Mr. Monkey Reply:
   December 22nd, 2009 at 3:03 PM

   Hi Jules,

   I tried the adze.com horoscope. I got a mixed bag. It started off with this:

   “A great deal of your time is spent in the world of feelings, emotions and intuitions.”

   No, I’m more on the logical side.

   “Intellectualism isn’t necessarily your thing.”

   Couldn’t be more wrong.

   “Because of your constant awareness of other peoples’ emotions, you need to insure your privacy and to practice some form of daily prayer or meditation.”

   What? I’m not religious at all.

   “TIP: Master an art form such as poetry, music, photography or dance. You can do it.”

   Well, it got 25% of this right. I do make music.

   “All things aquatic and nautical fascinate you; you are in your natural element when surrounded by water.”

   Not really.

   “More than likely, you’re determined, purposeful and persistent. You could also be more introspective, strong-willed, slow and deliberate than most people. Before you act, you like to turn things over and over.”

   It got this right. I am a little bit of a perfectionist, but notice the terminology. “More than likely.” “You could also be.” Nice way to cover up in case it’s wrong. I mean, it’s quite obvious it won’t apply to everyone born in the same place at the same time so they have to use wording like that.

   “You can become a star by making the most of your own intelligence. Get organized. Use common sense.”

   I thought earlier it said that “intellectualism wasn’t my thing.” I’m noticing that it covers a wide range of descriptions, regardless of if they contradict or not. This technique would help make it seem like the horoscope applies to more people. Of course, if you’re not skeptical and looking to confirm you’re own beliefs, you would naturally ignore the things that don’t apply and emphasize the things that do. That is something that has been scientifically observed.

   “TIP: Use dream magick. Write the name of a lover on a piece of paper and then slip it under your pillow. Sleep on it. When you wake up remember your dreams. This will help you to understand your relationship.”

   DREAM MAGICK? LOL! What? In science, that’s called “retrieval cues” and there is research to back that up.

   “Break a wall of silence. You could do some healing work with men, especially around issues of defensiveness and vulnerability. To gain more power, get closer to those in power.

   What is this? Break a wall of silence? What silence? Healing work? Not just any healing work, but specifically with men? What is that trying to imply hahaha…and lastly “to gain more, get closer to those in power?” I mean, I can’t disagree with statement, but what does it have to do with the “wall of silence” and the “man healing?” LOL…this is funny stuff.

   “You can present your talent to the world or at least to a large audience. You’d do very well in the entertainment industry. You are inventive, insightful and ingenious.”

   This is dead on. I do some work in the music industry. But again notice the terminology. Another thing, what possible benefit do I gain from reading a statement like that? I would be working in the music industry regardless. This statement doesn’t add anything to my life.

   “You could be a major power behind the scenes. You can be: the producer, head shrinker, “tax” collector or investigator.”

   Again, 25% accuracy. I am a producer.

   “You have some natural detective instincts and an ability to see through facades and appearances.”

   True. How ironic.

   Ok, I think I’ve gone through enough for now. Thanks anyway Jules. I appreciate the link and the effort on your part. I honestly thought it would be more accurate than it was. Oh well.

   [Reply]
6. 
   

   Jay
   

   8 months ago

   Hey Mr. Monkey,

   It sounds like you’re really trying to understand this stuff. So here’s some more info I hope you find helpful.By the way, I’ve been to many astrologers and they had the highest integrity. Sorry you and those you know have had otherwise. Discernment is important. By the way, Lynn is an excellent astrologer. Keep reading her interpretations. And I know sometimes people get defensive in their comments. That’s not productive. We’re all in this soup together.

   Astrology is not a science like biology or chemistry. So doing a double blind test won’t work. There is research and quite a bit of data by a French astrologer, Michael Gauquelin, about the Mars effect, which may have some scientific validity. But that’s just one planet.
   Here: http://www.planetos.info/index.html
   Click on : The Gauquelin planetary effects.

   You need a different paradigm to understand astrology. Astrology is a science/art. It’s a symbolic language dealing with cycles of energy patterns in nature. Ask any ER doctor or nurse about the full moon. It is also dealing with the psyche and consciousness. In a person’s chart, there are predispositions but things aren’t written in stone. It’s not mechanical. Two people can have similar aspects in their charts but make different choices. It depends on the level of consciousness and awareness of the person. You’re dealing with thought patterns, emotional patterns, perceptions, beliefs.

   It’s all about energy. Understanding energy. Go into a church or temple. There’s a certain “feeling” an energy. Go into a football stadium filled with people watching a Super Bowl game. Different energy. So if you don’t have some understanding of energy and fields, you’re not going to understand astrology.

   It’s kind of like you’re in Detroit and following a map, and not getting where you’re supposed to be. It’s because you don’t realize that you’re using a map of Chicago. It won’t work. Many western doctors don’t give validity to acupuncture and think homeopathy is a farce. (People in Europe must be really stupid, including the royal family of England. They use homeopathy.) It’s not coming from Newtonian physics, but quantum physics. It’s about energy. The Chinese cal it Chi, the Hindus call it Prana. Everything is energy.

   Scientists are exploring this more and more. This video of cell biologist, Bruce Lipton explains it so much better than I can. He explains the difference between Newtonian Physics – matter, and Quantum Physics – energy. There is also a part 2 which will be to your right at the site. The Power of Your Mind.

   This is part 1.
   http://vodpod.com/watch/2204923-bruce-lipton-the-power-of-your-mind-1

   I have a suggestion. Instead of trying to prove or disprove whether astrology works, how about if you suspend judgement and just be an objective observer and investigate without trying to prove or disprove. Just be curious. But DO credible research. I’ve seen too many so called investigative journalists barely scratch the surface when talking about astrology. Read celebrity charts. There are databases. Or have the charts of people you know interpreted by one or two good astrologers. Read astrology books by respected astrologers. I think astrology books should be in the psychology or self-help section of bookstores, not with the paranormal, woo-woo stuff. Get a copy of the magazine, The Mountain Astrologer, and read some of the articles. I think it’s available in Borders.

   Did you know there are specialties in astrology: Financial, Transpersonal, Evolutionary, Vocational, Medical, and then general astrologers.

   There are too many intelligent people who are/were astrologers.
   Here’s a quote from Hippocrates, physician and astrologer, known as the Father of Medicine. “A physician without a knowledge of Astrology has no right to call himself a physician.”

   And some more heavyweight astrologers.

   Thales [624 to (548-545) BC] Greek philosopher and mathematician.
   Pythagoras [580 - 500 BC] Greek philosopher, mathematician.
   Anaxagoras , Greek philosopher of nature;
   Plato , Greek philosopher, mathematician.
   Hippocrates [460 - 377 BC], Greek physician traditionally regarded as the father of medicine.
   Aristotle [384-322 BC] Greek philosopher
   Hipparchus [190 - 120 BC] Greek astronomer and mathematician.
   Ptolemy [AD 127-145], ancient astronomer, geographer and mathematician.
   Plotinus [AD 205, -270], ancient philosopher;
   Proclus Greek philosopher
   Johann Müller) German astronomer and mathematician.
   Nicolai Copernicus [ Polish astronomer.
   Michael Nostradamus -French astrologer and physician.
   Tycho Brahe Danish astronomer.
   Lord John Napier Scottish mathematician and theological writer.
   Francis Bacon lawyer, statesman, philosopher.
   John Dee- English alchemist, astrologer, and mathematician.
   Johannes Kepler- astronomer and astrologer.
   Galileo Galilei Italian mathematician, astronomer, and physicist.
   John Flamsteed: first astronomer royal of England.
   Sir Isaac Newton: Physicist and mathematician.

   I find these words a great reminder, especially the last question:
   What do you know you know?
   What do you know you don’t know?
   What don’t you know that you know?
   What don’t you know that you don’t know?

   [Reply]

   Mr. Monkey Reply:
   December 22nd, 2009 at 3:29 PM

   Thanks Jay. I appreciate your thoughtful comments.

   I’ve heard of Michael Gauquelin and I’m looking into his work.

   From your description of astrology, I take it that it can be used as a replacement for religion, without all the negative aspects. Is that accurate?

   On the topic of Quantum Energy, that is also something I’m looking into. One of the homeopathic doctors that I see uses it. I am not against homeopathy. In fact, if you look at some of my other posts, I highly recommend it. The pharmaceutical industry’s corruption can be partially attributed to the reason that medical doctors dismiss homeopathy or aren’t even aware of it’s concepts. My old family doctor did not have any knowledge of these concepts at all. It’s too bad. Some, not all, but some homeopathic techniques and remedies can do wonders. A few natural techniques, including drinking red cabbage juice, helped “cure” my father’s diabetes.

   As a general rule of thumb, I use homeopathy and natural foods as a preventative measure or gradual healing process and pharmaceuticals for more urgent cases.

   Anyway, I will explore these things in a future article.

   I am in favor of science over superstitious beliefs, but I’m not going to pretend it’s perfect. Look at how much “science” has progressed in the last 1000 years. It’s a constant process of trying to understand the world around us better. The beauty of it is that if something is found to be wrong, it is replaced. When you hear about new research coming out that overturns previous scientific research, it’s not done by construction works or bus drivers, it’s scientists challenging science.

   As far as researching astrology by participating in it, that’s not a very scientific approach. Look at the response I posted for Jules above to see the results of one such effort.

   And yes, I am aware of the different sects of astrology.

   BTW, those questions at the bottom are great! There’s no denying that!

   [Reply]

   Mr. Monkey Reply:
   December 22nd, 2009 at 3:38 PM

   I’m sorry, I forgot to comment on the Bruce Lipton video. I disagree with his opinion of science as a religion. If he wants to convince his fellow scientists, he needs to do the proper work and go through the same process as every other scientist. Nobody believes you just because you say something. You have to present evidence.

   Quantum physics needs more research. I mean, EVERYTHING needs more research, but quantum physics definitely needs to be researched more to gain a better understanding of it. No real scientist can just claim to “know” something without researching it. Bruce Lipton’s description of “dogma” and “religion” is so ironic because he’s projecting. That is his mentality with quantum physics, yet he’s accusing science of being a religion because it demands empirical evidence and not a gut feeling.

   This is the same reason I’m skeptical of astrology, but I think you understand that.

   [Reply]
7. 
   

   Jay
   

   8 months ago

   Mr. Monkey,

   Thanks so much for your response.

   Just read the previous comment. Don’t use the astro.com personal portraits or daily info -they’re awful. And the short transit daily comments are awful also. And don’t know how much better the adze.com is.

   With computer generated reports, some are good; some are not. They can’t get into all the nuances like a live astrology reading. These reports are cookie cutter – making general statements – and can’t possibly include all the aspects. Usually it’s only one aspect to a planet, but what if you have 3 aspects to that planet and one modifies or nullifies the other. I don’t know of any computer generated charts sophisticated enough to do all the math involved that with the possible exception of Liz Greene’s.

   Astrologers are not mind readers. They are reading the energies of planetary patterns. It’s a symbolic language they’ve learned to interpret according to certain rules. The natal or birth chart is a planetary snapshot taken at the time of your birth. The exact birth time makes a major difference. With transits it’s how the energies are impacting you now. With the outer, slow moving planets we can see how they are impacting everyone in the world over a period of years.

   Example: Saturn just went into Libra. Everyone is going to be learning Saturn in Libra lessons for the next couple of years. How it impacts each person is much more specific. Some people will be impacted more than others if they’re getting “hits” to their chart. And that’s mathematical.

   Now, Response to Your Response.

   The reason I mentioned homeopathy is that it uses dilution and energetic imprints. I was speaking generally. Looking at things from an energetic perspective is still foreign to most western thinking. Science is just beginning to catch up to the things mystics, astrologers, martial arts masters (chi kung, kung fu, tai chi, etc.) and others have understood and experienced. Gregg Braden has written about his travels over 20 years, to mountain villages and remote monasteries, to uncover some of these timeless secrets related to energy.

   You wrote:

   “From your description of astrology, I take it that it can be used as a replacement for religion, without all the negative aspects. Is that accurate?”

   No, that is not accurate. I don’t think I brought religion into the discussion.

   To me astrology is a tool for self-awareness and growth that can empower us and help us to understand ourselves, our relationship to others, to the earth and other planets and how we interact with them. It’s not dogma to me and I wouldn’t give my power away to it or any other system. It works in understanding nature’s cycles and patterns. Simple as that. Astrology can help deepen one’s religious beliefs (depending on what the religion is) and increase a respect for life and other people and our place in the cosmos. So if astrology brings us closer to God, Christ, Universe, Spirit, Allah, Source, Nature, whatever you call it, so be it.

   Here’s an Interesting political astrology site. Excellent insights. Don’t bother with the comments. She’s not peering into a crystal ball, just looking at the cycles. Remember the cycles present possibilities.
   http://starlightnews.com/wordpress/
   Just scroll down for more articles from what’s happening with the President, to what’s happening with other countries.

   And if you’re interested in reading about weekly Astrology Weather to get a feel for that, go here. Anne Ortelee. She’s a hoot, but she knows her stuff. Read if for a few weeks and observe. http://www.anneortelee.com/
   Rules #1 and 2 and 3. DO NOT BUY IT JUST BECAUSE IT’S WRITTEN THERE. Just observe. Some weeks she’s too way out with her stories, but she knows the astrological weather.

   And if you want to read another level of astrology, go here,
   This guy is brilliant. My head hurts when I read some of his stuff. I can only take small doses.
   http://www.aquariuspapers.com/astrology/
   Just click on any of his posts to read the whole article.

   You wrote:
   “I am in favor of science over superstitious beliefs. . . ”

   Please don’t label astrology as a superstitious belief. As soon as you label it, you’ve already judged it. And then others label it the same way. Remember that last question: “What don’t I know that I don’t know?” Just put it into a category that you don’t know enough about to put anywhere yet.

   I noticed you changed the title of the post. Perhaps you would even change it again.
   “IS THERE ANY VALIDITY TO ASTROLOGY? ” or
   “ASTROLOGY: IS THERE ANYTHING TO IT?”
   presents differently from “IS ASTROLOGY A SCAM?”

   Haven’t read any of your other posts. I’m sure they are interesting. I responded to you from Lynn’s site. I don’t comment very often. Just like to bring more light rather than heat to a situation if I can help bring clarity in any way.

   I’m enjoying your comments.

   [Reply]

   Mr. Monkey Reply:
   January 18th, 2010 at 4:34 AM

   Hi Jay, sorry for the late reply. I was out of town enjoying a little vacation.

   I didn’t use the astro.com horoscopes, but since you say they’re terrible, I won’t bother. The results I posted were from adze.com. As you saw, they didn’t prove anything. A very mixed bag of vague statements. Not only that, but they didn’t actually provide any real value. Overall, just a huge waste of time.

   About your comments on “energy” …I’m sure you realize that “energy” is not something is unknown to science. If something exists (ie. “energy”), we will be able to detect and study it. These topics should be studied to gain a better understanding of them. That is my point of view in this discussion. If there is any validity to these things, they should be studied and understood.

   I also need to clarify something about homeopathy. When I refer to this, I’m usually referring to the lifestyle and nutritional advice they give. The homeopathic doctors I know don’t usually recommend any homeopathic medicine at all. If you’re talking about the dilution method of creating homeopathic medicine, then we’re not on the same page because I don’t really have any reason to trust those. I, nor anyone in my family, has ever had any results with those. We have had results when they recommend nutritional advice or natural remedies, such as the red cabbage juice remedy I mentioned earlier.

   Anyway, I checked out starlightnews.com and anneortelee.com. I found Starlight News to be pretty useless when it comes to politics. There are much better sources for political analysis, if that is in fact what you’re looking for. If you want a bunch of “maybe this will happen, but it’s also possible that will happen” then I guess it’s an ok place to hang out. I wouldn’t really recommend it to anyone though. As for Anne Ortelee, she charges people $130/HOUR. I’ve got nothing else to say about that. People like her are why I wrote this article in the first place.

   As for Aquarius Papers, I spoke with Robert and it didn’t go very well. We talked for a bit, but he seemed to get annoyed after he looked at the study I posted. He tried to discredit it, but when I pointed out some inaccuracies in his argument (not to mention that his comments indicated he hadn’t fully read or understood the journal), he got annoyed and deleted my comments and insulted me to his readers. If I had acted out of line, I would acknowledge it, but he simply seemed annoyed by my questions and his censorship against me made me decide to not waste my time any further. If he can’t take time to discuss something scientifically without getting that frustrated, he’s obviously not a man of science. I can’t trust people like that when they speak about “evidence.” He’s ruined his credibility with me.

   About labeling astrology a “superstitious belief” …that’s not me judging it. The title of my article is me judging it. That statement is simply an accurate description of astrology, according to the dictionary.

   as-trol-o-gy
   –noun
   1. the study that assumes and attempts to interpret the influence of the heavenly bodies on human affairs.
   2. obsolete science of astronomy.

   su-per-sti-tion
   –noun
   1. a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like.
   2. a system or collection of such beliefs.
   3. a custom or act based on such a belief.
   4. irrational fear of what is unknown or mysterious, esp. in connection with religion.
   5. any blindly accepted belief or notion.

   All those accurately describe astrology, except #4.

   I’m sorry, I’m not going to change the name of this article again. The reason I changed it was so that it wouldn’t be offensive, but the message stayed the same. The article looks at astrology from a financial point of view and is a criticism of people who exploit it shamelessly.

   For me to even consider using the words “astrology” and “valid” in the same sentence, I would need some actual scientific evidence to support it.

   [Reply]
8. 
   

   theo
   

   7 months ago

   Mr. Monkey,
   Astrology has worked for thousands of years. Just because you don’t know how it really works, don’t be a hater.

   [Reply]

   Mr. Monkey Reply:
   January 18th, 2010 at 4:36 AM

   Hi Theo,
   If you are so certain about astrology, I would advise you to contact a local university and partake in a scientific study. When you have some evidence to back up your statement, I would love to look at it.

   [Reply]
9. 
   

   Jay
   

   7 months ago

   Mr Monkey,

   Hope you had a great vacation.

   I too have not had too much success with homeopathy – except for eye drops. There is no one size fits all in any of this. But I recently read about this report from Cuba:
   http://homeopathyresource.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/successful-use-of-homeopathy-in-over-5-million-people-reported-from-cuba/.

   Wow. You really have a way of pissing off astrologers.
   Could be they’re defensive. Could be your attitude. Could be a combination of both. Most astrologers are not scientists or have the kind of background you do and can’t answer questions posed from that mindset. Doesn’t make what they do any less valid. Just means according to your criteria, there’s not a match. Many are highly intuitive and sensitive and don’t fare well when someone is in attack mode – perhaps not even consciously.

   Reminds me of sparring with someone who’s on a college debate team. Someone like me wouldn’t have a chance. Does that make me any less intelligent, or knowledgeable. Not necessarily. I just don’t have those skills.

   What if people have skills that are not yet measurable scientifically or much valued by society? Maybe I’m more right-brained. Maybe I’m highly intuitive. Maybe I’m a deep thinker who has to chew on, reflect on information, and is not able to give a quick answer. Maybe I’m able to synthesize deep, complex concepts. Maybe I’m very sensitive to energy, an empath, and can physically FEEL in my body, as pain, or discomfort, the other person’s anger, frustration, etc. coming at me. Measurable in a lab? How do you measure something that’s happening in the moment? Oh wait, I’ll get into the exact same emotional space and the other person will as well. How likely is that? That moment is gone.

   RE: Anne Ortelee charging $130.00 an hour for her services. That one really pushes your button. She’s not “scamming” people if they are understanding cycles in their lives and how they may have an impact. Actually, in the past, I’ve had a problem with astrologers charging that much for their services. But you know what, as I’ve read and listened to specific astrologers over a period of time (not just once) to get a feel for what they know, I’ve come to respect certain ones and the amount of time and knowledge they put into what they do. So I’ve come to respect that. There isn’t a standardized knowledge base or test for astrologers that I’m aware of although there are astrological organizations that may deal with some of this. And there are colleges of astrology. Kepler is one.

   I don’t know if you will ever prove to your satisfaction that astrology is a science. Probably not, because it may not be provable in the way you’re looking to prove it. And if that’s the only way you can look at it, then there’s definitely an impasse.

   The missing link, according to what I’ve observed (of course anecdotally and not scientifically based) is that we’re dealing with energy – which is not static. You’re looking for definite outcomes. There are possibilities, and probabilities and patterns and movement. Consciousness is constantly acting upon itself. Can I prove that according to your premise. No. I can only go by my personal experiences and how I’ve interacted with cycles, how they have impacted my life and helped me with self-understanding. For me it’s often my internal radar guiding and then I check what’s happening astrologically and realize I was internally in tune with the astrological cycle before having checked it out. We all have this internal radar, guidance, if our left brain chatter doesn’t get in the way. I have also observed cycles impacting the lives of others, including the collective. I’ve seen it in economic cycles, I’ve observed it in generational cycles. But then, I am an observer of human nature.

   I find it fascinating to read about how generations of people with the same outer planets – Pluto, Neptune, and Uranus have a commonality to their beliefs, cultural attitudes, thinking patterns, etc. It’s like they have the same imprint. This is more the field of sociology. And Saturn is a “fun” one to watch. Saturn teaches us responsibility. Interesting that the age of “maturity” and adulthood is 21 years – which involves Saturn cycles.

   You could try looking in different ways.

   1. You could look into the larger cycles and how they have impacted and created changes in the collective. How has society changed?

   What have we as a collective experienced when Pluto was in Scorpio, differently from when it was in Sagittarius, and now that it has just gone into Capricorn.

   Would it have been helpful to know beforehand that Pluto, which just went into Capricorn, would be bringing in a cycle of transformation of government, economic and fiancial structures, such as banks, insurance companies and Wall Street? And that one of the lessons would be to be more self responsible regarding material possessions and money. It doesn’t tell us HOW, but it tells us potentials and possibilities of WHAT. Could we have become more responsible so that the economic downturn would not have been so severe? That’s called “catching the cycles.” That’s how astrology can be useful.

   Would anyone have listened while Pluto was in Sagittarius – spending to excess, living on credit, living above our means, wanting more, more more.
   That’s called “putting head in sand” and not having any foresight.

   2. What happens when Mercury goes retrograde, which it does a few times every year. Are there communication snafus and misinformation. Are things delayed or slowed down? Check out what has happened in society during Mercury retrograde cycles. Like the Mercury R during the 2000 presidential election. (Delays in finding out who won.) Or the recent impasse with healthcare. Yes Mercury was retrograde.

   3. What about new moon cycles. We have one every month.
   Do some research on that and see how they impact things generally, rather than specifically one person. We know about farmers planning during certain moon cycles and that there is increased surgical bleeding during a full moon.

   4. Perhaps you could email or talk to astrologers who were former debunkers – there are many. And find out what happened to change their minds.

   It isn’t always black and white. Truth/untruth.

   Interesting exercise:

   1. Is my intention to disprove? What is my attitude toward what I’m wanting to disprove. How does that feel? Emotionally, mentally, physically – in my body.
   2. Is my intention to prove? What is my attitude toward what I’m wanting to prove. How does that feel? Emotionally, mentally, physically – in my body.
   3. Is my intention to be neutral and observe what I find? How does that feel. Emotionally, mentally and physically – in my body.

   Observe the differences.

   Namaste

   Jay

   [Reply]

   Mr. Monkey Reply:
   January 18th, 2010 at 5:50 PM

   Hi Jay,

   Thanks, the vacation was great. Incidentally, I happened to be in Cuba. I didn’t stay at a resort like most people, I actually went throughout the cities and the western side of the country to see what it was really like. I read the Cuban report but it doesn’t provide enough information so that one can confidently claim that it was the homeopathic medicine that helped. Until they release a full report, there’s only so much you can say about it. Seeing that this conference was held in 2008, I don’t see why they haven’t released a report yet.

   I think it’s important to note that leptospirosis in Cuba only accounts for about 1 death per 100,000 people. That’s not exactly high risk. Infection can be avoided simply by drinking bottled water during the hurricane season. Many Cubans now seem to drink bottled water regardless, so that could have been the reason as well. We can’t say for sure until we see some more information.

   Now homeopathy is intended to be highly personalized, but this is claiming to be a one-size-fits-all kind of medicine. If that is true, then this medicine could, and should, be tested in a lab. This would provide some substance to the claims. There’s no reason not to test it. Wouldn’t you agree?

   About Kepler College, they are not accredited. It seems to be a group of astrologers exploiting astrology once again simply because there is a market for it. Since they are calling themselves a college and attempting to appear scientific, I may contact them and see if they have some real evidence to back up astrology. If they are going to call themselves professors, I would expect them to act as such. It’s unfortunate to note that less than 30% of Kepler’s faculty actually have doctorates. It’s also unfortunate to note that there seems to be a focus on selling the books written by the faculty. I’m sorry, this smells like a scam. I wouldn’t pay these people $15,000 ($3750 x 4 years) for a “degree.”

   Look Jay, if there is any validity to astrology, it should be provable in a scientific format. When you speak about energy, feelings, and intuition, you need to understand that science can, and does, study these things because they exist. This is not outer-worldly or something outside the realm of science. To understand these things, you would have to do a lot of research, but there is evidence backing them up. First you have to fully understand evolution and how we came to be the way we are. Then you have to research psychology to understand the mental processes. An understanding of biochemistry is necessary to comprehend what feelings and intuition actually are, the chemical processes that occur, and how they work. To understand more about the effects planets and stars have, you should research physics and astronomy. Tie these understandings together and the things that appear “mysterious” right now will become clear and you will understand why science doesn’t take astrology seriously. Unfortunately for proponents of astrology, if you want to appear credible, you are the ones who are going to have to attempt to prove it scientifically.

   To be fair, I will concede that the Moon does in fact have an effect on our planet, but it’s not in the way that astrology talks about. The gas giants like Jupiter also have a great influence on us, but once again, not in the way astrology claims. For example, Jupiter’s gravity diverts a lot of asteroids that may possibly have otherwise been headed for Earth. As for the stars that are so powerful in astrology, they have nearly a negligible effect on us. Their effects are more on a Universal timeline that on a day to day timeline that would somehow affect human beings daily lives.

   [Reply]
10. 
    

    Johnny
    

    7 months ago

    Hi. I don’t understand the strong desire to officially denounce or somehow ban astrology? How would this serve the human race exactly? It seems you are under the illusion that astrologers are a covert group of malicious people out to scam ‘poor victims’. Rather a ridiculous and offensive statement to make!

    Astrology has been around for an extremely long time, in some form or another, from cave men tracking lunar cycles on bones. I admit there is a scam in the sense that some people use it for financial gain. But there are astrologers whose intentions are genuine in seeking to help other people. And if they succeed if helping someone I don’t see where the harm is, whether or not astrolgoy can be scientifically proven. It’s like a placebo drug, it’s not a real drug but if someone’s condition improves after taking it where’s the real harm?

    Astrology can used for guidance in the sense that the planets and zodiac signs are deeply symbolic and ingrained in the collective subconscious, relating to thousands of years of mythology. It is us who have given it meaning, we created it. Furthermore if you consider that everything follows cycles and patterns, you can make a correlation between planetary cycles (’through’ the zodiac signs) and repeating patterns in your own life. It’s really not that hard to do! It’s like telling a story. I don’t believe in planets having literal effects on people for logical reasons. However as a symbolic system I do think there astrology can be useful.

    Astrology doesn’t have to be science. It doesn’t have to be something you live your life by. It can just be a bit of fun! I think there are far worse threats out there to be honest. Personally I’ve found astrology very enlightening as a self-development tool. It shouldn’t be ridiculed just because it can’t be tested by contemporary science. It’s still around for a reason and to say it’s only because people are stupid or ignorant is insulting and simply not true.

    You seem to be very eager to find evidence to discredit astrology but there will always be evidence of some sort (as you’ve already shown). So it’s a little pointless pursuing it any further. You can’t convince people to stop practising astrology if it’s something they choose to do.

    Just to note, the horocopes to which you refer in the media are merely for entertainment! They were invented around the 1930’s, I believe, to help boost morale during the first world war, something light-hearted in the newspapers to counter the doom and gloom. As newspapers are largely negative, horoscopes have stuck around and most people enjoy it without taking it seriously.

    peace

    [Reply]

    Mr. Monkey Reply:
    January 22nd, 2010 at 4:48 PM

    Hi Johnny,

    I really appreciate your comment. I actually agree with you, for the most part. For rational people such as yourself, I don’t see the harm. The issue I have is 2-fold.

    1. The scam. You already acknowledged this yourself, so I won’t delve into it.

    2. Irrational beliefs. I have more of a problem with the promotion of irrational belief than the scam itself. Although you yourself are aware that it is us who give it meaning and not the other way around, there are people who actually believe this stuff 100% real. For someone to believe it, they must suspend rational thought and this doesn’t serve the society as a whole progress into an age where we can apply rational thinking to advance science, technology, politics, business, etc. For example, you can see religious opposition to things such as stem cell research. Rationally, their opposition isn’t sound. It’s only the irrational beliefs ingrained in them from birth that makes them fight something that has the potential to treat or cure so many diseases and conditions. This is the danger of irrational beliefs. Astrology promotes that kind of thinking and I’m against it if the person ACTUALLY believes it. For people such as yourself, I have absolutely no problem with it.

    I hope I cleared that up. Let me know if you have any further questions.

    [Reply]
11. 
    

    Rose
    

    6 months ago

    its not really a matter of Belief its more about Understanding.
    you want evidence? do the research.

    [Reply]
12. 
    

    Jay
    

    4 months ago

    Mr. Monkey,

    Decided to stop by. I see astrology is still being discussed. Didn’t plan on posting again, but I want to respond to your comments.

    I don’t consider myself irrational. Nor do I consider the thousands of fine astrologers and scholars, around the world, many of whom have Masters degrees and PhD s, to be irrational and illogical. I use my left brain quite a lot, thank you very much. I also use my right brain. Actually, I like to think I use my whole brain. Astrology has helped me to think more rationally and objectively and be less caught up in the limbic brain.

    No we haven’t bought into some woo-woo hallucinogenic fog.

    Astrology is not a belief. It is a tool. And it works. I use multiplication. I don’t know how it works, but I still use it.

    If you ever decide to study astrology, you may just come to understand it and even come to respect it as have so many who started out to debunk it and then STUDIED it – the operative word being STUDIED. But that’s not going to happen because it seems what you really wanted to do was prove astrology is a scam. You’ve barely scratched the surface of Pop Astrology, which is entertainment, and think you understand astrology. Astrologers analyze (I believe that’s a left brain activity) hundreds of charts and learn to observe cycles and patterns based on their observations as well as mathematical calculations, which used to be done manually and are now gratefully done by computers. The Chaldeans (now Iraq) who may have been the first astrologers, learned by observing nature and its cycles and patterns.

    I’ve offered you information in good faith. I don’t know how much of it you’ve availed yourself of or how many books you’ve actually read. I don’t count confronting astrologers. Astrology is a complex symbolic language. Not learned in a weekend workshop. It takes years of study.

    I’ve suggested you study the historical cycles and observe them. One example: What cycle occurred in 1966 that is repeating now astrologically? And how are we as a society responding to it now compared to then? And what have we learned about the 1966 cycle that we can do differently now? It’s a Saturn/Uranus cycle which occurs about every 40 years. If you don’t know the language, you don’t have a clue as to what I’m talking about.

    What I find unacceptable is that you find it OK to just throw around derogatory comments and denigrate a whole profession. There’s enough name calling on Cable News. I would like to think you’re better than that.

    You could say, “I just don’t know enough about it, and since I’ve decided not to really study it, I’ll suspend judgment.” But doing that wouldn’t prove you right. And perhaps that’s what you really want: To be right.

    [Reply]
13. 
    

    Aisha29BLAKE
    

    1 month ago

    I had a desire to start my own firm, however I didn’t have got enough of cash to do this. Thank heaven my close mate told to take the loans. So I used the car loan and made real my dream.

    [Reply]

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